16 replies to this topic

[Bill]

The Wall Street Journal reports:

Since 1970, the public school workforce has roughly doubled—to 6.4 million from 3.3 million—and two-thirds of those new hires are teachers or teachers' aides. Over the same period, enrollment rose by a tepid 8.5%. Employment has thus grown 11 times faster than enrollment. If we returned to the student-to-staff ratio of 1970, American taxpayers would save about $210 billion annually in personnel costs.

The inefficient sector of the economy.

[HippySkippy]

I just threw up.

[Bill]

Be careful or they will find a way to charge you for that vomit. Public sector Heroes need to be paid.

[HippySkippy]

Because I work in the private sector and have had to lay off everyone that works for me, I'm forced to clean it myself.

[Bill]

That was your first mistake. Always work where someone else is required to pay you, instead of doing it for yourself. Then you can blame them when times get tough.

[HippySkippy]

I still have a boss that has to pay me, I just don't have a guy that cleans up my puke.

[Bazinga]

So why does it seem like every 5th person I know has the credentials to be a teacher??? Aside from summer vacation whats so intriguing to a 20 something??? I mean you see so many of them are out of work, why pursue it? Your chances of finding a job aren't high.

Edited by Bazinga, 12 July 2012 - 05:28 AM.

[PiedPiper]

Because where else do you only have to work 40 weeks a year and get benefits that last forever and you really have to screw something up to get fired. Compare that to becoming a mason, electrician, plumber, etc. where you are constantly hoping for work, might be in a union but so many are freelance right now, and if teachers ever got laid off as much as these guys do their heads would spin. Oh and did I mention unlike teachers seniority the folks seniority actually counts against them as there rates get higher when the leave apprenticeship status which makes them less attractive for jobs.

Edited by PiedPiper, 12 July 2012 - 08:41 AM.

[Bazinga]

Because where else do you only have to work 40 weeks a year and get benefits that last forever and you really have to screw something up to get fired. Compare that to becoming a mason, electrician, plumber, etc. where you are constantly hoping for work, might be in a union but so many are freelance right now, and if teachers ever got laid off as much as these guys do their heads would spin. Oh and did I mention unlike teachers seniority the folks seniority actually counts against them as there rates get higher when the leave apprenticeship status which makes them less attractive for jobs.

Construction workers get a good few winter months off...unless they have a really good indoor skill they can substitute the time for. Roofers get the winter off and rainy days. You are right on the firing but a lot of the young ones will get let go before they can acquire tenure.

[PiedPiper]

Construction workers get a good few winter months off...unless they have a really good indoor skill they can substitute the time for. Roofers get the winter off and rainy days. You are right on the firing but a lot of the young ones will get let go before they can acquire tenure.

Until present day do you have any idea when the last blood letting of teachers was ever this bad? My point was people in some type of construction KNOW they will get laid off but teachers don't

[Bazinga]

Until present day do you have any idea when the last blood letting of teachers was ever this bad? My point was people in some type of construction KNOW they will get laid off but teachers don't

The Great Depression.

[Bill]

Right around there. Yup.

[Bazinga]

We might be headed towards another one so it makes sense.

[Ahmad]

the issue is far more complex than this. The schools were responding to requests from parents and requirement from both the state and administration. Now the teachers unions may have been involved but it would have had to due with request based on parents and the school board. Yes there are more teachers but do you think it could have to do with something like this. A parent wants there special needs student integrated into a traditional classroom. The classroom teacher doesn't have the skills to handle this student at all times and the student now comes with a 1 on 1 aid as well as a teachers aid for the class. Now there are 3 teachers in that classroom. Another parent hears about this and wants their kid to do this as well and now you have a huge explosion of hires. Policies change and when there is a financial crisis they have to pull back but are unable to due.

this is one of those issues that is far deeper than numbers. Look at the city of elmira right now. the current problems are not the fault of the current board and teachers and union. Some of the deals that were put in place were done 25 years ago when the population was double what it i today.

[Bill]

Sounds like the school simply needs to learn how to say, No, doesn't it?

No is not one of the things they like to say, when they can ensure bloating up their personal fiefdoms.

[Ahmad]

Sounds like the school simply needs to learn how to say, No, doesn't it?

No is not one of the things they like to say, when they can ensure bloating up their personal fiefdoms.

It isn't as easy as no. remember they are in essence still a business. they need students to stay alive and they are supplying the community with what they ask for. So we wanted extra security, more teachers and all of these things they as a business provided those things. Now we complain about having to pay for them.

[smooth]

And, it's not easy saying "no" when the State or Fed says "you must".