What a combination this is folks. After a little searching ( google ) I was able to figure out why Tommy’s money goes to one faction of this Community all the time. Most of us who grew up in Elmira supported Tommy by buying our clothes from either the trunk of his car or ” Peoples Place “. Of course going into Peoples Place was kind of taking a chance that you would be deemed a drug user since it was a ” Head Shop “. But, with that said I’d like to link you to Wikipedia for a little background entertainment and then to his son Rich Hil’s website. Maybe I’m just getting old and the generation gap is closing in on me, but I find it very hard to fathom how the ” N ” word can be buried by E.O.P. and the Ernie Davis Center one day and then money can change hands the next in support of educational opportunities at ” Predominantly Black Schools”. This story started out with the support ( financial ) of the Elmira School District and then ( when the District had a brain fart ) was relegated to Hilfiger and the NAACP. I guess I’m just an American who wants to move forward and get over all this race crap. But how can we do that when all we hear is the one sided ” Beat ” of Elmira’s illuminatti ? Please, fill me in
Dec 12
Tags: Race
Herb, back when he had the people’s place and “fat city” (aka head shop) I was just young enough to not really know what a ‘head shop’ was…I thought it was just a cool place to make necklaces and look at pretty/unique candle stuff…it was like the inside of Jeannie’s (from I dream of Jeannie) bottle!- a girl’s dream! My mom would have a fit! I never understood why…
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I guess you can do it by ignoring it, you think? Works for me.
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He can’t be that bad since Michael Moore seems to hate him ! And he aint a big Tommy fan….
“Filmmaker Michael Moore was on hand to run around with a boom mike and camera, and also some people who were injured at Guns And Roses concerts.
Moore was openly vocal in his lack of support for Rose’s campaign. “I couldn’t be any more lacking in my support if I set fire to my head and then screamed, all because I disagree”, said Moore.”
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You are entitled to your opinion, but you have to realize that your opinion may be one of the reasons why the issue won’t go away. Can’t have it both ways. You have said in the past that you played against Ernie Davis, well my father played WITH Ernie Davis. Never, in my life has he ever express a time in Elmira where race issues didn’t exist. It doesn’t mean we don’t play together, or communicate, or make friendships. The issues have always been there. When I was six years old we moved to a new neighborhood. The first Black family. Three kids, the same age as me, came over with with black grease on their face to make fun of me. Mind you, 6 years old. They didn’t come up with that on their own. It had to be their parents, who are your age. You, yourself, have expressed the fact that there is an “unequal playing field” when it comes to crime in Elmira, yet when someone tries to address these same people in a positive way, you take issue with it. Again, you can’t have it both ways. My parents had five children. Although they love us all, we were all treated diferently, each according to our needs. Some received more attention that others. Such is life.
If Axl Rose wants to help the SS community center, that’s his choice. It his money, he can do whatever he wishes. As for Tommy Hilfiger, he sees a need in the community and he is responding. It’s better than the Catholic organizations getting grants targeted for the minority community and doing nothing for them. Right?
Since we’re having a friendly debate, I know you’re Herb. My name is Ron
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Who’s Axel Rose?
Tommy Hilfigger is pretty low in my book, no matter how much money he gives to any organization. It is like when I lived in Manhattan, and you would walk downtown to little italy, and gotti was treated like a king for the money he gave away. Hilfigger isn;t a mafia don (He isn’t smart enough), but you can’t buy respectability.
I have been having a real hard time with the issue of Race, since I started iElmira. I thought I held certain beliefs and my experience here has made me rethink them. I guess if nothing else comes of it,it was useful for that alone.
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Axel Rose is the Guns n Roses dude.
I don’t know Tommy personally, but I went to school with Andy and Ginny, and consider them friends. Andy, Mike Houghton, and I were in the same home room. Ginny dated my best friend. The first album I ever owned, AC/DC Highway to Hell, I got with a gift certificate Andy gave me. Far before the fame, I’ve known the Hilfigers to be very good people.
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Guns n Roses, Check.
I heard that Tommy bled the community for what it was worth, then moved on, not fulfilling many promises tha the made.
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sometimes my recycling bin looks as though I were entertaining guns-n-roses…
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For argument sake, we’ll assume that’s true.
As a business man, would you have a problem with that. You make whatever moves you have to, to make a profit. Right?
As far as giving to the community, times are good, you can. Times aren’t so go, you can’t.
You could say the same for Corning Inc. They got tax breaks to build in many communities, promising job, delivering none. If the bubble bursts, what can you do?
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G00D for Tommy! He is being a responsible person. It is his money, let him do with it what he wants. He is supporting a more that worthy cause.
As far as his moving out of town, Bill, what would you suggest he should have done? Tommy Hilfiger is a big name in the fashion world. He HAD to leave town once he got his foot in the fashion world door.
I repeat: G00D for Tommy Hilfiger!! RIGHT ON!
Herb, if you think there is any place on the planet that is truly color blind, it is because you are white OR you have your head in the sand. I don’t recall seeing any sand in your hair when last I saw you.
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I gather I stand corrected.
I am all for maximizing profits, and god knows when someone ‘makes it big’ they really ought not to live amongst the riff-raff in Elmira, NY of all places.
I do insit that people keep their word, even if it is inconvenient for them.
Wach, ever try the Ligthouse?
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Yes, love that place, it’s the only “supplier” we frequent…love their little tastings and email updates! and the gift baskets…fabulous fabulous place!
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I agree Bill, although I’m not sure what promises he didn’t keep. Guess I’d like to know. On the other hand, if someone makes a promise that they are unable to keep, if they are forthcoming in good time and say, “hey I promised this, but I am really unable to come through”, I will accept it.
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So it bothers me immensely when I hear it being shouted to the roof tops in both song and school corridors. And , oh yeah, the Prison blocks rebound with it ( and not from the guards ). My issue with the Black College thing is that any child can go to any College they choose and its up to them ( not me ) to figure out where they want to go. I also take issue with those in the local black community who are quick to organize against the Police when they respond to a call of shots fired. Right down to Police dogs records being subpoened to see if the dog was trained to be ‘racist’. Sorry Ron but its happened over and over again and I don’t see anything changing for the better. And if this community is ever going to come together its got to be a two way street. So, now we are full circle. Why doesn’t “Tommy” support the entire community if he’s giving back to it ? And nina, you don’t see any sand in my hair because I have washed it out since the 60’s when I was stationed in Biloxi Ms and myself and a good friend ( who was black ) were chased off the Beach by a bunch of Clowns who didn’t want us there. And sorry to say nina, it was Hilfiger who bought Strathmont originally with the intent of opening a rock and roll museum.
And truthfully, I’m glad that John Travers bought it from him, he is much more instrumental to this communities moving forward then Tommy Hilfiger will ever be. And he is supportive of all races and issues, not just those that fit his needs. And to close, how about those links ? Is that a step in the wrong direction or what . Like I say, I’m tired of being told not to say a word because its hurtful to some and then being forced to listen to that same word being screamed by those who told me not to in the first place. Tommy’s son must be a little confused I guess…..
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Wach, I am afraid I can not use the word fabulous, in any context. I am amazed that you could pull it off with such aplomb though!
Yes Ron, I gather, under extraordinary circumstances, I would allow someone to bow out (While keeping that in my head form that moment on of course). Where did I hear it (racking my brains), got me, it was anecdotal from someone. I gather it was juicy at the time, maybe 7 years ago, when I first moved up here. Might have had something to do with the property he had his store in…While the facts have faded, the distaste lasted. Sigh.
I too have issues with one group being singled out for either special treatment or special punishment, no matter if it is of the best intentions. Even if it is my group. What sticks in my craw over these kinds of things is the whole ‘mirror’ thing. If there were a NAAWP or such, and it did something like this, it would be unacceptable. Hell, colleges and universities wouldn’t want any of the kids who woudl go on such a sponsored tour, but make it a Black issue, and it is washed clean of the stigma of separation, and comes out as a good thing. Doesn’t sit well with me.
Where am I wrong?
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Herb, thanks for replying. And I see the same things that you see. But I also see those who are doing the right thing in the community, and I must say that they are the majority. Remember, there was a bust a few months ago only because the community cooperated. I agree 100% that for change to happen it has to be a two way street. It’s also bothers me when I here the “N” word in public, but I also realize that I was one who once used it. I too, don’t particularly like the Black College thing, but if it is a choice of a kid attending at a Black College or being a menace in the streets, I choose the Black College. I’m not saying it should be like this forever, but at this point I believe we have to use all avenues to get these kids into college. If they don’t, they’ll be here, with no good jobs, and many will resort to crime. That’s not what we want. Like I said, I don’t agree with it, but the effects from it has been very positive.
If you spent most of your time on the Eastside, you must know my father, Leo.
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Ron, I am strongly wanting to agree with you, but I have never seen any good come balkanization, and a whole lot of bad. It only takes a few people then to turn the masses against your particular group. Bad things happen then.
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But Bill, Blacks never wanted it either. They tried to go to colleges but they were denied, so out of necessity, they created their own. Fast forward to today. Yes, they may not be needed, but once something is created, it’s hard for it to go away. Whether it be Black colleges, NAACP, unions, whatever.
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It only takes a few people then to turn the masses against your particular group.
And in Elmira, the difference is …?
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Alot of institutions fall by the wayside, and I applaud that, it makes room for more worthwhile institution’s to crop up, wouldn’t you say?
In Elmira, the difference being, it is a microcosm to what we are talking about, Blacks as a whole have fought to stay balkanized, with their societal institution’s and their actual institutions. And as such, been held back. Irish, Italian, German, Chinese, Japaneses, Russian, they have all melted in Americas pot, I don’t see that as having happened to the Black Community.
Is there an advantage to always being considered a special case, or is there more of an advantage to blending and becoming one with greater society? Is it through an overt desire to maintain a separateness, or is it something that society forces on us? Is it truly a color thing, where the amount of melanin in someones skin actually is indicative of the person them self? I think not. I am at a loss though as to what the roots of it all are. And since I can’t even see the roots, I am having a hard time seeing the forest for the trees. Know what I mean?
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So what’s your solution to the problems going on right now in Elmira?
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without being facetious, what problems do you see?
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The issues I discussed with Herb.
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Getting kids into college?
I am not a proponent of universal college educations, I think it is wasted on some, and others, it is of no use. I could get behind training programs, as long as they were run by business and not government, as government has no stake in producing actually useful people, quite the contrary, their stake is in making sure that as many people as possible rely on government.
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I agree but this story is about person providing his private money. Many of the beneficiaries live in area where most of Elmira’s crime occurs.
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Who commits those crimes?
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Sorry Ron, but I really don’t see why E.O.P. loves this guy and continues to idolize him. As far as I’m concerned he is a part of the problem that exists.
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What is your problem here, Herb? If Tommy Hilfiger wants his money to go to an organization of HIS choice, so be it. It’s HIS money!
And what’s with the link to that stupid site? Is there a point you’re wanting to get across? If so, what is it?
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Hil (a.k.a. Hilfiger ) is kind of promoting the things that his Daddy is allegedly attempting to eliminate through the almighty dollar. Lets see now, he built the E.O.P. building that is next to the Ernie Davis Community Center , which has the New York State Division of Parole in it. And here sits the Southside Community Center on the brink of bankruptcy. And thanks for calling it a Stupid site Nina. At least you get that part of it. So if you want to ‘look up’ at Tommy Hilfiger and his crew then feel free to do so. I personally believe that he’s nothing more then a “thug” with $$$ and not a saviour of Elmira……So thats my problem Nina. And if you would like to point out where I’ve gone astray please feel free. Its an open debate isn’t it ?
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I think the guy in the link was way to taken with his sunglasses. I was embarrassed for him.
Herb, The Elder Mr. Hilfigger has been trying to cater to the inner city youth crowd since he began, no? How else would you expect him to raise his son (The aforementioned embarrassing sunglass fondler)? Young Mr. Hilfigger also demonstrates the lack of class that is endemic to children of new money. < shrug >, If Tommy (shudder), can hold onto his money for another three or four generations, the whole inner city thing will be forgotten in family history as a trial balloon that just wouldn’t fly.
Mr. Hilfigger can do with his money as he pleases, I, a solitary person, have a couple of choices, I can decide I find pleasing his line of clothes (Which I don’t), and purchase them, adding to his bottom line, or I can go back to ignoring him and purchase my clothing from other suppliers.
I wish him the best, though I do believe by perpetuating the “Ghetto lifestyle” he does no favors to the people he is attempting to sell to.
Whatever sells to the people I guess.
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I don’t see Hilfiger as a hero or a thug. As for who he helps, it’s his choice. I personally would help eastside before any other area. Sorry, I went EFA. Southside sucks!
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Turf rivalries! Now we get down to it.
Go GED!
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Maybe this is why I kind of like people like Bill. They have made it in life and don’t hide that fact. But they seem to somehow be able to raise their kids to be models for society. I think I have done the same ( at a lesser level I’m sure ) by getting along with my neighbors and helping them out regardless of their race or culture. Thats what being an American is all about people and I don’t recall the Black Community going so far downhill until the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Prior to that the Black Community had it together and family was at the forefront. What happened ? And Ron, may the best ” TEAM” win at the next Southside / Academy game……
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So you are saying that the kids , people (black people live on the southside too) aren’t worth being helped? As for the “N” word, I too, have a problem with a group of people telling me if I use it, I am racist but, if certain “celebs” or if black people use the word, it’s acceptable, it’s part of their slang, their culture. I was angry and embarassed when someone used it last year about a friend of mine and made a point of telling them that it was wrong under any circumstance….should I maybe have told them that it was wrong because they were white and not a “celeb”? Do you perhaps see the double standard here?
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Hmmm, if you stand off a bit and read these messages, anyone see … tribalism?
Yeah, I know, rehash.
I guess havening moved around so much, I never got a chance to claim a tribe, Marines maybe? Mathematicians? Day Traders? (Theres a wild ass bunch of homies!)
One of the beautiful things about the internet is that we can all belong to the same tribe, with very little preconceived notions about each other. For all we really know, Ron is a 14 year old Asian girl. (With a lot of soul!) I do beleive meeting each other bonds one closer to that tribe member, I know Wach, Herb, Brenda, Herb and of course Nina - While not quite family, they are like my neighbors, and I have yet to find something my neighbor wanted from me, that I would not try really hard to help them with.
An Electronic Tribe. I like that.
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take that as a sign of support for Hillary ! Her idea of a village is much different from mine.
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And mine.
People who choose to band together are different than people who live in a certain geographic area. There is also the matter of choice.
I am very hopeful that the Hillary train is quickly derailing. I am actually starting to enjoy watching the process. This isn’t the early 90’s, their playbook is old.
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Herb: “Yes Nina there is a point. Here is a rich white guy giving his all to support the local black community in Elmira.”
I suspected that was the point you were making, Herb. I just wanted to see if you would admit to it.
Now…about the site: I really don’t care whose site that is. It is filled with words I don’t use personally and I try to avoid those who do. IRL I would walk away on any group who used such offensive language. The internet if free and we can’t control what others choose to build such a site. But we DO have the right to avoid such crap by not visiting the site. Just like what TV has to offer: If you don’t like what you’re watching, turn it off.
But the announcement that you don’t like the idea of “a rich white guy giving his all to support the local black community in Elmira” is, quite frankly, one of the most racist statements I’ve read of late.
But it must be liberating for you to have your true feelings on this matter out in the open, now. As they say, confession is good for the soul.
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Nina you are so full of bull. If you ever read all of his posts on the subject you would see it has to do with the fact that there are many other community centers in town to which Hilfiger ignores, all the centers need help but the only one that ever seems to make out is the ED Center. Why don’t you stop trying to start something that is not there. I guess if caring about the fact that the kids on this side of the river seem to always come up on the short end of the stick is somehow racial to you, then I fail to see it because the kids over here are both black and white , too. And next time you put text from someone else in you comments..put the whole text in , not just what you want to use to start something.
“Yes Nina there is a point. Here is a rich white guy giving his all to support the local black community in Elmira. And that ’stupid’ site is his sons site. Rich
Hil (a.k.a. Hilfiger ) is kind of promoting the things that his Daddy is allegedly attempting to eliminate through the almighty dollar. “
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Gee, maybe this summer we can organize a Block Party and show the rest of Elmira what its really like to be an Elmiran. And by the way Nina why should I feel liberated in any way ? My “True” feelings have been out there in the form of letters to the Editor and discussion for many years now and I have had nothing but good feedback on them until now. Guess its hard to debate the truth without attempting to turn the tide in the direction you want it to flow………….
And I just cannot turn the other cheek when its being continually slapped by
scum like Rich Hil ( figer) in the name of racial harmony ?
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One should always say what one means rather than leave the meaning of what one says to be interpreted by the reader. Correct punctuation helps, too.
Readers may or may not have had time or opportunity to peruse every comment that has ever dropped from your lips and therefore it is imperative that what you write is clear and not open to interpretation by the reader.
I am aware of the fact that you say that disgusting site is the work of the son of Tommy Hilfiger. As I see it, that has nothing at all to do with the comment you made before making that one: “Here is a rich white guy giving his all to support the local black community in Elmira. ” Notice the period you put at the end of that statement? It means the end of that thought.
A particular section of Elmira was not specified until later when both you and your wife claim that you actually didn’t mean ‘Elmira’ specifically but meant SOUTH Elmira (although that doesn’t modify the original introductory statement).
Say what you mean and mean what you say. You’ll save yourself a lot of explanations later.
I must repeat here that a simple fact remains: Tommy Hilfiger is free to give his money to whomever or whatever he wishes. It is his money. I’m just thankful that he choses to give it to what I personally see as a worthy cause.
Enough said.
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” Redneck from the Southside “. How much clearer do I have to be ? But with that said I must also point out that my education was obtained on the Southside also and without the help of people like Tommy ! Watch Cops sometime and you will see who chooses to wear ” Tommy’s ” fashions. And it sure aint the Cops…. Punctuation be darned !
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Wow, Cabin fever sets in after one day of snow. People going at each other, civility thrown to the side of the road, People, People, Lets wait until late January, maybe early February for the vitriol. < s >.
Often times, one does not have to go immediately to guns, pne can step back, and try to see what someone else is trying to say, as this medium sucks for communication. Try to imagine the other person sitting across from you, both of you enjoying an extra crispy wing (Though not the same wing, have bit of decorum!). Both of you *enjoying* the conversation that is going on, as opposed to throwing up a defensive posture and deciding where to place your long guns for maximum enfilade fire.
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Mine is not long.
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Nina, with all due respect when you type “enough said” at the end of your posts, I take that as “this should be the end of the conversation, I have concluded it with my own correct thoughts and anything said to the contrary at this point is irrelevant and dumb.” It sort of kills the open dialog.
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No ‘guns’ being drawn , just a little verbal ” brass knuckle ” therapy for those of us who pay the taxes around here ( very few left btw ). And hell, I’m enjoying the conversation immensely ( between shoveling ) since I’m always right ! Not a bad response though for my first attempt at ” Posting ” on this site. And it was truly easy to figure out once I found that dreaded password that I keep losing. Thanks
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No ‘guns’ being drawn , just a little verbal ” brass knuckle ” therapy for those of us who pay the taxes around here ( very few left btw ). And hell, I’m enjoying the conversation immensely ( between shoveling ) since I’m always right ! Not a bad response though for my first attempt at ” Posting ” on this site. And it was truly easy to figure out once I found that dreaded password that I keep losing. Thanks And wach, thats my opinion, whats yours ? Sorry Dr. Coleman but it was a necessary plagerism ( hope I spelled that right ).
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Brenda, theres a joke in there, admittedly, funnier if you were a guy…
Wach, exactamundo. But, I usually take it as the person who typed it is stepping out of the conversation, Jumping back in to get another shot in later, while common, is uncouth.
Herb, I am not trying to stifle any debate, not even close to that, what I was doing in my ham fisted way was to try to get people who were butting heads to get back to the loving they are so good at. I think that expressing views is the only way to see where people stand and love it. I understand you have a different style that I do, and while I will whip out the brass knuckles, I try to use them on the truly deserving, not just the people who disagree with me < s >.
I am really happy that you and Nina have started to post your own topics, I mean, get a warm butterfly-ey feeling in my gut. I didn’t want this ever to be “Bills Blog of boring shit”, and now, I have a pretty good feeling it won’t be. Why should the Star Gazette get to be the one who directs the way the news is delivered, are they out walkign the streets (With two dogs!) every freaking day? Are they seeing the way the city really is? As opposed to how they are told it is? Again, no freaking way. So keep walking the streets herb (lol), and start posting more topics. I am hoping Nina takes it to heart and does a recap on the city council meetings, she does a great job of cutting the BS and delivering the goods on the council.
Now, you realize you double tapped your message…lol!
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Bill Cosby speaks a lot of sense to me. And to you obviously. I would like to hear what kind of sense he speaks to representatives of the Black community.
Lets work out the password problem Herb, let me know via email.
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“Enough said” means the poster has said all they intend to say on that particular topic.
Enough said
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I only have this to say and it ends here for me…when I was in English in school, my teacher taught me that the first sentence of a paragraph was explained and further expounded upon by the remaining content of that paragraph. Punctuation is only a part thereof.
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Is there a poster book that explains all of the little sayings, etc. because I don’t know them; this is all very foreign to me. Some of the sayings could irritate the reader. What about instead of “enough said” we could say “out.”? That could mean that the writer may be done, but the reader can continue on with our blessings.
Brenda and Herb, we will be bringing our little guy to see all of your “dreidels” this weekend…hope your dogs are out, he loves dogs!
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Sigh.
If anyone wants to get last licks in, please, pick any of my posts and go to town. Just indicate that hte last word is wanted < lol >.
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Bill, we are girls…you know how us girls are!…to the death.
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Yeah Wach, I am a guy, I don’t mind, nor do I need the last word.
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sometimes it’s not even an actual word, it could be a look, toss of the head, an evil smile.
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Wow, all this over a designer giving money to one community center, instead of both?
Nina, you are correct, this is Tommy’s money and he can do whatever he wants with it. However, he seems to forget that there is another center in town, that surely could use some help from him as well.
Maybe those of us who aren’t real thrilled with the turn of events can email Tommy and ask him what gives?
Just a thought.
BTW, Herb and Brenda, I was by your house tonight, love the decorations. I would have stopped and said hi, but my niece was in crab mode.
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Ok, My considered opinion is, anyone can give any of their money or goods to anyone, or no one. With not a word of criticism justifiable from me.
Your mileage may vary.
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There is a shoe store in the mall that sells Uggs, down by the magazine store. Good boots, not waterproof though, My daughter got a couple of pairs there in the past couple of months.
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